Can I draw my gun and make a citizens arrest

[Oldgringo]

Only if you have your CHL badge/sash


(been a while)

Not long enough.

Did you intentionally forget to mention the cape?

[Purplehood]

I prefer the Tiara from a non-gender-specific point of view.

[sjfcontrol]

Apple Moving
2653 Myrtle Springs
Dallas, Tx. 75220
Office: 972-239-0399
fax: 214-366-2936
http://www.applemovingdfw.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do they give out free iPads, or iPhones with each move?

[AustinPC]

Drawing of the weapon, not so much....The arrest however is a very gray area; better to stick to the black and white when effecting an arrest as a private citizen. Here's the reference:

TITLE 1. CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURECHAPTER 14. ARREST WITHOUT WARRANTArt. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.(b) A peace officer may arrest an offender without a warrant for any offense committed in his presence or within his view.

A felony was clearly not commited and the breach of the peace would depend on how the two movers conducted themselves during this encounter; thus the very gray area that could get someone in trouble.

To wit:

PENAL CODETITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCYCHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSESSec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;
(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;
(3) creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place;
(4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;
(5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;
(6) fights with another in a public place;
(7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;
(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;
(9) discharges a firearm on or across a public road;
(10) exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and is reckless about whether another may be present who will be offended or alarmed by his act; or
(11) for a lewd or unlawful purpose:(A) enters on the property of another and looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in the dwelling;(B) while on the premises of a hotel or comparable establishment, looks into a guest room not the person's own through a window or other opening in the room; or(C) while on the premises of a public place, looks into an area such as a restroom or shower stall or changing or dressing room that is designed to provide privacy to a person using the area

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor had significant provocation for his abusive or threatening conduct.(c) For purposes of this section:(1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence; and(2) a noise is presumed to be unreasonable if the noise exceeds a decibel level of 85 after the person making the noise receives notice from a magistrate or peace officer that the noise is a public nuisance.(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor unless committed under Subsection (a)(7) or (a)(8), in which event it is a Class B misdemeanor.(e) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1977, 65th Leg., p. 181, ch. 89, Sec. 1, 2, eff. Aug. 29, 1977; Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 4641, ch. 800, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1983; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 145, Sec. 2, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, Sec. 14, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 54, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 389, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

[C-dub]

Only if you have your CHL badge/sash


(been a while)

Not long enough.

Did you intentionally forget to mention the cape?

Yeah. Now look what you did.

[tbrown]

A CHL is not a catwoman license.

[KaiserB]

It is legal to use deadly force when deadly force is justified. So at what part of this civil matter was force justified (NOT when you felt force was justified, but actually within the bounds of the law justified)

How to do it right:

Option 1:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=9efgLHgsBmM[/youtube]

Option 2:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=m5_lFT52NrU[/youtube]

[srothstein]

I think the only advice I would give is to call the police before paying. One thing these types of people do not want to do is actually take the property. They want the cash. You might also want to contact both the original moving company, so they know that there is a website stealing their customers and good name. And, believe it or not, since the Internet was involved, you might contact the FBI. It is a federal felony to use interstate wires to commit crimes like this. It is probably below their limit financially for wanting to get involved, but they might.

I am also not as sure that the contract was binding. There are some legal principles involved on contracts that include making sure that the contract is actually a meeting of the minds. They do have a strong presumption of validity, but I am not sure the courts would uphold the fraud just because there was a signed contract.

In addition, there might be a theft going on, even with the signed contract. Theft is defined as taking someone's property without EFFECTIVE consent. Consent is not effective if it was obtained by fraud. And any citizen may make an arrest for a felony being committed in their presence. The problem is that it might be kidnapping or unlawful restraint if the courts do not agree that it was a theft. I mention the theft part just to show that the law really is trying for justice, and as a general rule, if you think it was wrong then it usually is against the law. Not always, but there are a lot of ways to use the laws like this.

[speedsix]

...when I hand over $1500 cash...it don't get to be any more effective a consent than that...I ain't skatin' on that ice!!! a good dose of common sense could have stopped all this...I'd bet if the police had been called, they'd have crawfished quick...without the police doing anything but driving up...

[BrianSW99]

This exact same scam has been in the news several times here recently. People have called the police, they arrive and refuse to do anything because it's a civil matter.

Brian

[jimlongley]

This exact same scam has been in the news several times here recently. People have called the police, they arrive and refuse to do anything because it's a civil matter.

Brian

I think it would be better to call the police and take the chance that they will just say it's a civil matter and leave, on the off chance that it really is a scam and the BGs get away with it. If it's a scam that the police are aware of arrests might be made.

When we moved from upstate NY to IL 18 years ago, a corporate move paid for by the phone company, we were told, by the phone company, that no "guns or other dangerous weapons or items" and no pets would be moved. United Van Lines were the movers and they showed up in a UVL truck and trailer, but later told us that they were actually only contractors to UVL. They packed just about everything in the house, and charged for it too, including the (full) kitchen waste basket and a partially full bathroom waste basket that you don't want to know what was in it.

While chatting with the movers about what they could move and such, they told us they had no problem transporting guns, and even in some instances pets (?).

When I reviewed the bill that the phone company had paid, I discovered that UVL had charged them for "special handling" for moving my gun cabinet, AND CONTENTS! indicating that there were guns in it. Not being a trusting soul, I had packed and transported my guns and ammo myself, the only "contents" were some cleaning supplies left in the drawer, not even all of the original contents.

UVL had also charged a special fee for (I forget the language) somehow magically taking my parrot along. Since Oz rode with us, cheerily greeting cars passing us with a police siren sound and sounding off like the radar detector every 3/10 of a mile, as well as having disputes with the dog about who got shotgun in the back of the car (actually they were riding on top of the shotgun) I also found that interesting.

I called my home company and protested the charges, but never did hear of a resolution, it really was not my money after all, but I figured it came out of the company's bottom line and that had an effect on me eventually.

And that was United Van Lines.

These days I just assume that any movers will take a mile unless restrained.

We used a small local mover to move from Plano to Allen, and they charged us mileage for the trip, except they took the long way, for a whole extra mile and a half, to the tune of, like, $0.55

[RoyGBiv]

Maybe I'm the only one who ever got a better than expected deal from a mover...

A few years ago I moved from NC to DFW. Whole house, kids, garage junk... all of it..
The moving company quoted me a not-to-exceed rate that I thought was reasonable, and they included their estimated weight on the quote... But the price was the price.

Long story short, their weight estimate was low by 60%.

The deal was out of my hands since it was a corporate move, but I did give them an extra $300 out of my pocket as a tip for not breaking/damaging anything. I found out later that a few garden tools failed to make the trip.... but.. no big deal.

I'm betting their estimator in NC didn't last long.

[Westfield]

Citizens arrest like the scenario you describe will cause you many more headaches imaginable...There are many movers local and national who are quite dishonest. Last time I used a mover was several years ago....It was a national moving company ...We were doing a coast to coast move...They quoted me $5,500 for the move...By the time they got to our destination they added almost $4,000 to the bill claiming that we added more stuff after they did the estimate which we did not. I complained loudly and got in touch with the state attorney general's office and my senator. During that time the senate was holding hearings on this practice so they dropped the additional charges. This was a common practice back then and since then all of my moves involved u-hauls...No way would I ever use a mover.

Lets look at another case where you might consider making a citizen's arrest....The Mission auto dealer in San Antonio just went belly up screwing many many customers especially those who put down deposits and turned their cars in as a trade in and Mission was supposed to pay off the balance of their trade...They never paid off the balances just sold the cars taken in trade screwing (stealing) the customer....Look at the San Antonio Express news in the business section this morning and you will see a picture of the smiling owner who could not care less about screwing his customers and keeping the cash.

Lets look at another recent case...Verizon and At&t just got caught with their hands in your wallet stealing from you by "cramming" your bill with charges you never ever agreed to ! We learned of that through another senate hearing...We checked out bills and sure enough we were scrammed to the tune of just over $20.00 a month ! We got our money back....

The point is....Many many companies today are legal criminal enterprises and we can't pull a gun every time we are robbed by a local company or a multinational corporation....

Sorry for the long rant...I feel for the OP but this, unfortunately, is business as usual that cannot be solved at the point of a gun.

[koolaid]

With movers, like dentists and mechanics, you are better off getting a recommendation from someone you actually know and trust.

You're trusting them with literally everything you own.

[philip964]

A little bit of an update.

I got to see the contract. It had a company from New York on the letter head at the top. No idea if that is a real company or not. The pay in cash was actually in bold type near the top, that would made me stop right there.
There was not a place for anyone else to sign, so it really was not a real contract since the "moving company' did not sign, although I can't remember the last time on a rental car contract the clerk at the place signed either.

The guy with the clip board got my friend to sign along the side of the form where he put an x and a line, in addition to the bottom. He was not given a copy after it was signed, only after he paid. In the mean time the clipboard guy added some sideways handwritten language in front of his signature agreeing to pay for the additional wrapping charges.

They have called the Houston police to report the incident and the police have replied it is a civil matter.

Now for the good news. He contacted the Texas Department of Transportation. I guess this falls under their jurisdiction, since a truck was used.

They are sending someone over to have them look at photographs (mug shots). I guess this sort of thing happens a lot.

It is being investigated by the state as an "organized criminal enterprise" ( can you say RICO ). That means I guess the State is pretty serious about it.

I told him that was great news, but doubtful he will see any of his money, but he will feel a lot better as RICO normally means triple the time in jail.

Still a really hard way to steal money.